Maxim 0:05

Ciao Salvatore. I am super excited to connect with you. Um, your area of expertise is something that it's uh near and dear to my heart. I'm very passionate about uh communication and communicating with clarity. So one of the things that we come across often with our founders and commonly get asked is like, how do I adjust my communication? So founders rarely think about when they start scaling, how they need to adjust their communication style, what is communication uh with clarity means, what does this look like when you have five employees versus when you have 500 employees? So why don't they just turn it over to you and just ask you like what does communication with clarity mean? And at what point does a founder typically discover that the way they've been communicating no longer works?

Salvatore Manzi 1:00

Love the question. Really appreciate being on the show. And communicating with clarity is my goal. It's the title of my book, too, the clear and compelling. And for a founder, there are many times that they will notice the faces dropped or go blank, they will get a no on a pitch, or they'll be told that the message that they're using in this venue isn't working in that venue. And my communication coaching journey started in San Francisco and working a lot with the Y Combinator founders and other founders as they were going through pitches. What I noticed again and again, the pitch would be solid, but it wouldn't, the message wouldn't change to the different audience. So they're going in with a really solid pitch to the investor, but then when they go to the board, it's not landing, they're not getting the same response. When they had a small team of five people, to what you said, their message is sticking. But when it grows to 50, people on the outskirts aren't getting the same vision, getting the same inspiration. So my work is helping founders get clear and make their message relevant and sticky for each of the audiences so that they can scale their communication as their organization scales as well.

Maxim 2:18

That makes sense. So it's probably a good opportunity for us to just jump in and just tell a little bit about the audience about who is Salvatore Manzi. I mean, like you are a leadership communication coach, you're a speaker, you're a book author. Um, but why don't we just take 30 seconds and and and talk about what's your North Star? Why did you decide to focus on communication? Who is Salvatore? And then and could just give give us the the downloads on uh on on you.

Salvatore Manzi 2:51

Great. I it started on a stage. My parents are entrepreneurs, and then a lot of times they would find themselves speaking in front of audiences, and whenever they did, they would come back so enthused from the experience. I thought, okay, this is for me. And I got up on the stage first time, my voice pitched and then disappeared. And it set me on a course to understand what is the body doing, what is the mind doing when we go to communicate? Where are the challenges? And I identify as more introverted, very analytical, data-driven. And I noticed that a lot of public speaking training is geared for the more charismatic or extrovert in how to shape that charisma. So I had to find my own path. And over the last 20 years, I have been coaching founders and other leaders, primarily in STEM, engineer scientists, uh, data-driven folks, and learning how to communicate the content in a way that is sticky, deliver it in a way that is authentic and connected, and hold a presence that creates the gravity in the room. And after 20 years, I put that all into a book, clear and compelling. Uh, by the time this is out, it'll be available anywhere you want. It comes out in a couple of weeks. And it is strategies for big thinkers, meaning the smartest and most brilliant, that they can use in these different situations to communicate and connect with their audiences.

Maxim 4:22

So for you, this is second nature, but for somebody that that's is known to and kind of like well, what are the hacks? I mean, obviously, a good recommendation is read the book. A lot of the lessons are captured in the book. Um, and we'll we'll drop a link to the to the book in the show notes so that people can uh order it. But how do they go about? Like, I mean, you mentioned three things. Um, how do they go about commetting the present, holding the audience, communicating with clarity?

Salvatore Manzi 4:52

Yeah, this is great. And it is it's an art form, right? It the and every person I've worked with has a unique quirk. There's something in their makeup and the way that they've been presenting that is a little bit uh offers an opportunity to improve. So, how would I suggest any founder out there listening begin working? First of all, ask people around you do a very candid 360. Whenever I work with a client, we do a 360 of how they're coming across to their room because they don't always know how they sound and how their leadership is uh sounds. And it helps for them to get that feedback. Second, once you know how you are being perceived, begin setting a course to elevate the pieces where there are drop balls. Oftentimes, with founders, the two biggest drop balls are connecting with the audience at first. Instead of sharing my message first, I want to connect with the audience first, talk about their world, make it relevant, and then get to my message. And the second is relying on data, relying on the information, the background, which is helpful if you're talking to somebody who already understands the situation, but it becomes an overload if they're not already tuned into it. So learning how to use metaphors or augment their data in a way that's going to connect, and speaking to the listener first before getting the message are the two ways that a founder can really start elevating their communication.

Maxim 6:29

So, in many ways, this seem almost seems like a continuous improvement cycle where um go and understand what are what are the needs of the customers, like um then elevate your your your message to or align it to what they need to hear, and then use data to to fine-tune, to tweak it. Um it's um so you you said communication is an art form, but the data communicates to me that this is a science. So it's a bit of an art and science. Uh, which one is more important? Or kind of like what balance would you give uh like each each one of the respective forms?

Salvatore Manzi 7:09

What this was love this question. I don't think I've ever been asked that before, and I love it. For me, because I'm analytical, I need the science to help understand what's happening. When I understand what's happening, then I feel like I can create a path out. So that's for me the science. Understand what is happening and why your brain seems to shut down when you go looking for that one answer or you're talking to that one person. It is an art. All of communication is an art form. And what I recommend to anybody is practice in low-stakes situations, practice outside of your comfort zone. Do the things that feel awkward. There are a couple of big things that I recommend everybody to start practicing. Number one, the pause. Right? I waited until you looked up before I kept speaking. And that's the key. Practice the pause. Get comfortable with the silence. Don't practice the pause in the middle of a pitch. That's not the time to practice. You practice when you're making your order at Starbucks. I would like a large Americano, right? You feel the awkwardness of that gap. You notice the person's expression, you begin fine-tuning. Okay, how far and how long can I hold it? Do I need to lean in? What do I need to do during that pause? You develop the art around you owning that pause in a low-stakes situation. Then when you're in the pitch, you know where to drop the pause and hold it in a way that holds the room. I can go in deeper, but I'll I'll pause here for a second for your comments about the pause. What are your thoughts?

Maxim 8:56

Um, I mean, no, I love it. It's um it's it it's something that I've I've heard a lot that uh the pause and and and particularly if you look at some presidents. You I'm I'm assuming that you were uh you live in the United States because you were calling it from California, but Obama was notoriously good at holding the pause, right?

Salvatore Manzi 9:19

They called it the Obama pause, they named it after him, the Obama pause. It's amazing. Yes, it is so good.

Maxim 9:28

I I completely agree. Um, at first it feels a bit unnatural because um when um when you're not used to speaking, you just kind of want to fill the void, and then you understand that actually it degrades the quality of the message if you're just like machine gun Kelly, just like communicating with rapidly. Um it's not about getting out the message. Um, as you and I know from a communication perspective, it's not what comes out here, it's what goes in here that matters. Wow.

Salvatore Manzi 10:01

That is so well said. It doesn't matter what I'm saying. And our instinct, our natural human instinct is to fill the void and keep communicating until we see a reaction that is the one that we want from that person. And I often tell you, tell people you people don't change their minds while you're talking. Yeah, they change their minds when you stop. Learning to hold the pause is the most powerful thing that you can do in the pitch, in the boardroom, when talking to that employee that needs to know why they need to make the change that you are suggesting. It's the pause that allows them to feel the importance of what you're speaking. But there's there is a trick to the pause, and I'll I'll share that with you. Yeah, because when I first started doing the pause, my coach got me up to three seconds, which felt forever. Forever. Yeah. And once I accomplished that, my coach said, Great, now you got to get to 10 seconds. I'm like, there's no way. 10 seconds, you've lost the room, but you know what happens. Seth Godin, I don't know if you've got him, yeah. He says, you know, one to two second pause, people will think you lost your place. So, fun fact if you don't want to think people don't want people thinking you lost your place, what you want to do is hold that pause for at least three seconds. Three to five seconds is a perfect pause, especially online. If you go beyond five seconds online, people will think that your video has stopped or something. After you get in person, if you can get yourself all the way up to 10 seconds, that's when people will lean in. That's when people will look up from their phone to hear what you have to say. So your goal is to practice your pause. Get to three seconds, get to five seconds, get to 10 seconds. But here's the real challenge and the secret. Don't pause at the period or the comma. Those are places that people expect and they're going to interject, they're gonna think you're done, they might interrupt you. But pause in a place that doesn't require a pause. It's called the anticipatory pause. Practice putting a pause somewhere in the middle of your sentence so that people are forced to stay tuned in to what comes after that. Now, I want to say that everybody has a reputation. People are used to your cadence. Yeah, they're used to the way that you speak. So when you begin practicing something new, it takes three months for people to adapt to the change. So that's why I say practice in low stakes, practice outside of your meeting rooms and offices and team huddles, practice somewhere else, and then start bringing it into those spaces. Slowly but surely, you will become known as the person that can hold the entire room with silence. And that's when you can convey the importance of the vision that you have.

Maxim 13:21

I want to jump in and ask you a question because what what you're saying absolutely resonates. Um, believe it or not, my first informal communications coach was a business development executive at Ernston Young. So for 10 years I used to work at EY, and early in my career was paired up with an amazing accounting executive that came out of the Seagorox. And he was phenomenal. Uh, this is where I actually learned about the Mickey Mouse principle. Like, what is a Mickey Mouse principle? And he's like, two giant ears, one small mouth, right? Like it's all about listening. And so this guy's talking to me. I have shared this with every team that I've that I've worked with, and that um, but what what I noticed from him is that he was incredibly talented, one at listening, two at communicating with clarity. And so this is where I'm drawing a natural bridge, is like salesperson or a con executive, amazing at communication. Why should founders care about communicating with clarity?

Salvatore Manzi 14:41

First of all, I love the Mickey Mouse analogy. I want to get into that. Communication is the only way to convey one's vision and to lead. I call my company leadership communication because you can't lead without communications. Yeah. And in the age of AI, where written your pitch, your pitch deck, your reports, all of those are spotless and elevated. You're expected to show up at that same level. Okay. And we are at risk, if we hand everything over to AI, we're at risk of losing our interpersonal communication skills as well as our cognitive thinking ability in the moment. And we are required as founders to continue working on our communication through getting feedback, through practice, through repetition in order to elevate and lead our company forward. I had a founder who was raising capital for a new fund. And they had their pitch. They were used to making their pitch. You know, here was the problem, here is the solution we provided, here's the how far we are, this is the team we've got, and this is where we, you know, they had it all done, but they weren't adjusting the pitch to the audience that they're talking to. And the biggest elevation that they had was to switch to a listener-first approach. I call it the you then me principle, speaking to what's going on in that listener's world before getting to the idea that they have to present. And as they learned how to use that you-then-me tool, it's four simple questions. Use that tool to prepare, it cascaded down. They started having better meetings, their board started listening to them, and they had a lot more success all around. You're a stun.

Maxim 16:47

A couple of thoughts that uh that were triggered based on what you just said. One because you use the word AI, a lot of people, I don't necessarily know if if it's founders, but certainly influencers or or or people that approach more the consumer, have cloned themselves. Um, some of it for scalability, some of it for um I guess perfection, or they're afraid of the speaking part, they're gonna stumble and make a mistake. So they would clone their voice, they would clone their likeness and and produce AI-generated images with their likeness and voice, but it's AI generated. So, one, I want to get your perspective on what are your thoughts around this? And two, how should founders leverage AI to become better communicators? Not to substitute to become better communicators.

Salvatore Manzi 17:55

The idea of having a decoy is a little bit jarring to me. So the fact that people are doing this, I'm having to in my brain process that this is the reality we are living in. I suppose there is a reason to it, so I'm not gonna knock it. I certainly haven't tried it. Business is built on relationships, and unless that founder that might have a doppelganger out there is actually connecting with the person in an authentic way, that business is gonna be a one and done. It's not gonna be an ongoing relationship that scales. Same thing with the employees in the company. No one's gonna work for, well, I gotta be careful my words here, but we don't want to be a slave to a computer. And if I if my boss is really just giving me the AI version of them, yeah, I'm out. I want to work for a person who has a vision. I want to work with that. So I've I've sort of lost your question as you describe this new reality of AI being used as doppelgangers out there. What was the question again?

Maxim 19:02

Well, I my my question was like, what are your thoughts on the doppelganger methodology? Because yes, it it does smooth the message, yes, it does provide scalability because you can produce a lot more content.

Salvatore Manzi 19:17

No, but it loses the human connection, it loses it makes it worse because then people fall in love with that, and then we end up with imposter syndrome when we go out in front of them because we can't possibly compete with that perfect eloquent, uh perfect skin, uh like icon version, avatar version of who we are. When they see the real us, the shock will destroy trust. It is so precious a commodity, and it takes so little to break that trust. And the biggest break in trust comes in communication. When your words and your presence do not align, it breaks trust. But right now, even I just read a research recently, just in written communication, when employees perceive the email from their supervisor has been written by AI and there are tells, we've all become hunters for the AI tell. When they perceive trust goes from 83% to 40 or below, and that's how it starts to wreck. People lose trust, and then you can't, it takes a long time to buy it back. So if you are gonna use an avatar, use it only in the most general sense. But if you're gonna use AI to improve your communication, this is how you do it. If you're listening in, try this go into your AI and tell them that they are a critic of your business. And you they are going to ask you questions, push back, push back hard. And their job is to rate your responses and give you the next best way, and then keep practicing it back and forth. I used to, when I, you know, back in the day, two years ago, people would come to me for help with interviews. I need this interview, it's really important. Can you help me? And I'd be like, Yeah, sure. I don't do that anymore. AI can help you prepare for an interview better than a person can because it's just drills. It's just drills getting the answers getting sharper with your answers and keep going. What you can do as well is have AI drill and sharpen your response, but not unless you have frameworks that you can use and a methodology that you can stand on. Founders, again and again and again, tend to download data. I will just download when what is needed in that moment is a dialogue. Right? I'm happy as an analytical person. I all of your data is just like a buffet to me. I want all of it. I want to know everything. That doesn't work. Not every audience wants that. So founders need to learn how to practice with metaphors. They need to learn how to practice telling the same story in a different way. I'll give an example of a client I had who was at the time director of data and an organization. And she was not being heard in the meetings. They would talk over her, they would dismiss her, they would just ignore. Then she started using her Prius as a metaphor for her points. That simple technique, she started using. Oh, you're trying to put gas in my Prius. It stopped the room. And they started paying attention. And then they started understanding the data that she was sharing. You know, when data is talking to data, everything is good. When data is talking to marketing, when data is talking to sales, we got some disconnects happening in there. You use a metaphor, metaphors move minds. When you catch a metaphor and you string it along, she's now chief data officer. And anybody in the company will tell you if you mention a Prius, oh, you talked to her. I know who you were talking to. That thing. Not only did she bolster her own reputation, but she got her message out there. And that's how founders take their vision into all the different audiences that they have.

Maxim 23:29

Completely agree. Um you talked about trust as a currency. And I mean, I can tell you that it is a currency in family situations as well.

Salvatore Manzi 23:43

Oh, yeah.

Maxim 23:44

I uh I uh my wife and I were in Mexico City last week for our money anniversary, so the kids were thank you. Uh 17 years, 23 years together. Um and uh over the span of four days, so my kids have access to my credit cards. So over the over the course of four days, there was a hundred plus dollars of charges at Starbucks. Yeah, for Starbucks. Um so I get that they have to buy food, or this was my other daughter, um, but it was drinks, and like there was a day that was three times the Starbucks. And so this is how trust got he wrote it. Um, because like I will trust you until I cannot trust you, like I would always give it a trust. Now, when it comes to communication, how do we use communication as a vehicle to build trust? Particularly if you don't have the rapport, the relationship with somebody pre-existing when it's new. How do you convey trust? How do you convey warmth? How do you convey, hey, um palms open? I'm somebody that you can trust.

Salvatore Manzi 25:00

This is so beautiful that you're walking into this because that's what every founder faces when they go into a new investor pitch. You can make trust, and it's quite simple. And I'm gonna lay it down very brief. Speak to their world, their hopes, their fears, and connect it to your vision and build trust. If you go in with your perfect solution without first acknowledging where they are, what's going on in their world, what they're hoping for, what they're worried about, they're not going to trust you. But when you can convey to them that you understand them, that you get what the world looks like from their perspective, they begin to trust you. People cannot listen until they feel heard. And your job as a founder is to make them feel heard before they say a word. So do the research, find out who they are. If you can't get a lot of information, go general. We're all experiencing certain things. You can talk to those things and bring it down, watch their faces nod, watch them acknowledge and go forward. And this leads into my favorite, my favorite framework for founders is with the QA framework. It's three simple steps. Clarify the question, validate the ask, and offer your response. Here's the challenge 99% of the smartest people in the world will skip the first two. Almost a hundred percent will skip the second one. Because it feels like a waste of time. It feels like I'm just blowing smoke. And I want to be clear there are four types of questions. Not every type of question needs that level of framework. But when you get a question that has a question behind it, when you get that question that has some pushback, when you get that question that is really testing the relationship, it's time to do that process. Clarify it. Well, let me make sure I understand what you're asking. Oh, good, that is. And I can imagine you're asking that because, or it makes sense that you're asking because it's related to this. And I could see how in your world that question really makes sense. The trick is waiting for their acknowledgement after each one. That's how you build trust. You acknowledge their world, you wait for their response that they feel acknowledged, and then you go on. It feels like you're wasting time. But it is where the relationship and the trust gets built.

Maxim 27:45

I couldn't agree more. Have you come up with a clever name for this clarified validating offer? This is the CVO model by Solitoramanti.

Salvatore Manzi 27:55

It's uh I don't have a clever name, I just call it the QA framework. But now I feel I gotta ask my AI, what should I call this?

Maxim 28:02

Yeah. No, I I mean I'm I'm obviously joking, uh, but this becomes super important. One of the common things that uh that we say to our founders, assumptions lead to regret. And you you clarified, I mean, your QA framework is is specifically going to clarify the question, validate the question, then offer the response. Don't go for assumptions because you can answer the questions, but if you're not answering what they asked, it's a missed opportunity.

Salvatore Manzi 28:36

Huge, and it happens so much time. We perceive they're asking because of this, based on some past experience, some other person's questions, based on my own feeling that I didn't explain myself well. So let me explain it again when that's not what they asked for.

Maxim 28:54

Are there things? Um I mean, I was I've been blessed working with um EY and Deloitte, so I spent 13 years with the firm, so it's training galore and through the firms. Um two two frame two frameworks um come to mind. One is the fair and flare and pair principles, and then the other one flair and pair, yeah. Like when you expand, when you contract, uh, kind of how do you drive for brevity, for clarity, for impact. Um, and the other one is the mean to pyramid principle. Now, uh I've done 20, almost 25 years in consulting, so the mean to pyramid is like how do you build your argument or how do you build the logic around what you're trying to communicate? Um, any any frameworks that uh that you would recommend, any books that you would recommend to to founders in terms of getting to their vision, getting to the objectives, because communication is very much um something that they that they have to learn to uh how to to do. But a lot of it starts before you open your mouth in terms of how you form it. So kind of like any recommendations, any guidance?

Salvatore Manzi 30:04

First, number one, always start out by asking yourself what I want them to say, do, decide. If you don't know what your target is, you're just mentoring jumble. So practice, spend the next day. Every time you know you have an engagement, stop and name in one line. What is it you want them to say, do, decide? Make it an intentional practice until it becomes so regular that it goes into memory. Second, I love your flair then pair. Is that what it was? Yeah, I love the flair then pear. Um, you're you asked for about a book, I would say Super Communicators. Okay, it's a fantastic book. Charles is uh a genius, Pulitzer winning journalist, and it's a great book for understanding how to communicate with others. Um, how can a founder can you repeat the question? I get so wound up in these like stories.

Maxim 31:02

Frameworks, methodologies, recommendations, kind of how do you get better around thinking about something than formulating the response, then communicating the response. So, um, I mean, one of the things that you answered is is the book super communicators, but how how should they approach um a message?

Salvatore Manzi 31:21

Well, I don't want to just keep over-promoting my book, but it is just a series of strategies. Pick a strategy, and this is what I recommend. Pick a strategy, try it for an entire day in different contexts until it feels right, until you can own it. The my number one rule with people is spot it got it. Write down who are the five people that you most admire, the way they show up, the way they communicate, and then write down what are their behaviors. You then have a list. You have a list of every day you want to try one of those behaviors in different contexts. And because if you can spot them doing it, that means you've got the ability to do it, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it. And it just takes courage to practice. Always start in low-stakes situations, always be ready to be awkward and messy about it. Take a total child's approach to trying getting messy and playing with this out and thing. But to offer one more framework that I think is very pertinent to today's world: the uncertain framework. Here's what we know, here's what we don't know. Practice using that as an immediate response to start a conversation, see where it takes you. It allows you to deliver the bad news along with the good news. And the truth is, clarity beats certainty every time. Just coming out and sharing something, even though it's still not completely known, is going to help. And we've never been in such a state of uncertainty as we are today. So here's what we know, and here's what we don't know. Use that as a prompt, as a practice. I don't want to just keep downloading a bunch of things, but hopefully there's a transcript people can just pull all these out. It will be trying each one one at a time. Great.

Maxim 33:16

For sure. So with the top five communicators that you personally admire and emulate.

Salvatore Manzi 33:25

I appreciate the question. I get asked this a lot, and I always feel like I shouldn't tip my hat to anyone in particular. You mentioned number one, Obama. I really found his ability to personalize highly intellectual information just astounding. Plus, he always took his time in getting his response rather than just off the cuff. I think Brene Brown almost to the other side of it, not because she is precise or concise or she has the most greatest eloquence, but because she always humanizes what she says, she always connects it to others.

Maxim 34:08

Yeah, I mean I completely agree. I mean, I I love Brene. I've I've read two or three of her books. Um, she's not afraid to drop the F-bomb. And honestly, like listening to a Brene Brown podcast feels like you're in Texas and you're tailgating, like it just it just who she is, like it just she's so approachable and relatable.

Salvatore Manzi 34:27

Yeah. Blend the two together, you have a perfect, perfect uh outfit. Yeah. Um, I love Pete Buddig as well. He has a way, yeah, he has a way of not reacting to the emotional weight of the questions that he gets. Uh as a politician, they're throwing bombs all the time. He masterfully just deflects it and gets back to the heart of the issue in a way that I just think is astounding. I listen, I love listening to him explain things. Um, who else would I say? I do like Trevor Noah. Yeah. Trevor Noah is quite humorous, but what I like about him is the range. He will take us up into this point where we're just lapping and then drop us into this core emotional weight of what's going on, and then back up. And I'm like, okay, if that is that is such a talent, right?

Maxim 35:25

We did one thing that kind of stands out for me about Trevor Noir is that he has almost like childlike curiosity.

Salvatore Manzi 35:31

Yes.

Maxim 35:32

Like, I mean, this is what made him great at uh at the daily show, or uh was the daily show that he was on the host. Yeah, um, but I mean, it's just he just loves the conversation, he wants to be in the conversation, and and for him, this is like almost like time stops, and he just focuses on who is across the table from him.

Salvatore Manzi 35:53

Yeah, it's true. He's yeah, he he's well, I think he's brilliant. And I have to say, I also got kind of like his accent a bit too. Like, I don't know why it tunes my ear in a different way. The last one I would say is Oprah, and I'll tell you why. Not only is she a great communicator, but she has range, she can fill the space no matter the size of the room. She knows how to have that intimate conversation, and she knows how to speak to a stadium. And I've not seen a lot of people that can make that pivot as well as she does. I'm getting goosebumps right now, just thinking about it.

Maxim 36:28

Yeah, I mean, it it to have a range uh clearly uh it takes a mastery and skill set that uh not everyone possess. Everything can come with time, but to your point, you have to practice. Now, I want to slightly pivot a conversation, and and quite often I look at at politics uh as a proxy for good communication. Um, and so recently I came uh stumbled upon upon a clip. Um and I believe the two presidential candidates was Bill Clinton and whoever he was running against. And so they were showing the the video of him answering a question from the audience with audio and without audio, and whereas I think was I was I think it was George Bush Sr. that was looking at his uh watch and and saying, like, oh, when is this thing gonna be over? And so I want you to paint the picture of how important is body language and appearance in communication, and how do you control the physiological responses in your body in such a way that they coordinate, they sync with the message?

Salvatore Manzi 37:45

Congruence is key between your body and your message. That's where trust is built. I'd like to say this you may be on mute, but your body isn't. Okay. We our brains are wired to notice a thousand different variables. So communication is multimodal, right? We notice your posture, your tone, your eye contact, your facial expression. We notice where the shoulders are, everything, before we even start to process the words that you're saying. And and it's they have a uh they did a test, John Lido Lideau, and did a test where they put people in an MRI. They they checked the uh the scans, it was a CT scan, sorry, they checked the brain's activity when shown images, and what they found was the brain was responding to the image before it even processed what it was. We feel before we think, and we often think in a way that justifies the feeling for evidence of so your first physical impressions are the ones that are going to be the hardest to eliminate because they make an assumption, they make a judgment based on the first impression or the way the body is communicating before they process what you're saying. And to your question, how do we, as communicators, control the body and ensure that it is communicating the message we want? It's an art. I recommend improv class because it is uncomfortable and almost painfully at times for a lot of people, but it teaches a person to be aware of what's going on with their entire physicality, how to use their entire physicality to communicate the message. Yeah, it takes such clarity, and I will say I had I had one person going through Y Combinator who just kept giving me the same gesture over and over again, and I was like, you can't do that because this is the same as monotone. When all of your gestures are the same, we don't know where you're bringing emphasis to. We had to put his hands in his pocket. I don't recommend that. We had to put his hands in his pocket to keep him from doing that gesture until he could stop focusing just on his words and start focusing on the rest of his body. I would offer this as a person developing your communication skill, practice putting one intentional gesture in your first two to three sentences. One gesture that's intentional in your first two to three sentences, just as a practice, just so that you can practice saying one thing while you are communicating and then let it go. Let the rest of your talk, let the rest of the meeting, don't worry about it. But your goal is to have that first two or three sentences have a very intentional and unique gesture that goes just with that point.

Maxim 41:06

So um uh one question and then we'll come to a personal question, but I don't detect an accent, but based on the name, uh I'm assuming that you're from Italian heritage.

Salvatore Manzi 41:22

Salvatore Manzi, of course, italiano, eh, vero?

Maxim 41:25

Yeah, yeah. So you used to talk with the hands.

Salvatore Manzi 41:28

It's very good. Yeah, so when I first started, my my coach was had to had to pare it down. I I if you had tied my hands behind my back, I couldn't have said anything. Again, they are they are connected. I had to learn less gestures, yeah. Some people have to learn more gestures, some people need to learn bigger gestures, yeah. Some people need to learn smaller gestures. You'll have to find what works for you, and you can't do that unless you get feedback from other people.

Maxim 41:56

And this is where there was it Maximiliano or Oh, Maximo, Maximiliano, see Maximiliano, you know. Um now I I want to make the the conversation personal. So a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with ADHD of the inattentive type. And ADHD of the innotative type, what do we do? We fidget, we like it's it's not that they don't pay attention. Um, I'm interested in the conversation, but sometimes our body reacts differently. So, what would be your advice in this circumstance where interested in the subject, interested in the person across from me? But I mean, even this, even in this conversation, you'd see me like shifting, shifting my body just because that the like if I have an option, I'll be standing at a desk or walking and talking like this just who I am.

Salvatore Manzi 42:48

Set yourself up for success. If you have uh you're well, first of all, anybody going into a high-stakes event is going to have a charge of energy. You've got to discharge that energy before you get on there, otherwise you'll come out too loud or too big or something like that, right? So you need to find a way to ground and center yourself and release that energy before you go on stage. But for those of us who have a fidget or have excess energy, things like that, set yourself up for excess. Success. When I was doing virtual long before COVID, but when COVID happened and everything became virtual, I had to get a standing desk. I couldn't just sit there for eight hours and act like this is normal. I couldn't do it. I had to get a standing desk. And of course, then I started rocking. I was like, okay, this isn't good. So I had to learn to put one foot in front and one foot in back to stop me from going back and forth, which helped. But in standing, what I would recommend for you in this situation is to have some sort of a fidget spinner, something you can do with your hands off screen while you are paying attention so that you have something, or just simply doodle that helps to do that as well. Well, set yourself up for success. Figure out what it is that you're gonna need in that situation that's gonna make it better. And if necessary, put your earphones in and go for a walk. Do it while you're walking.

Maxim 44:12

So you you you're talking about discharging the energy, but um it's almost like you can almost use exercise to charge energy. I mean, like a lot of people would know who Tony Robbins is, and they they know that Tony Robbins has a little trampoline that he he jumps out, he just he gets himself psyched for the conversation. So, any tips or tricks there in terms of like if you're low on energy, if you're on high energy, how do you coming to yeah?

Salvatore Manzi 44:43

Yeah, I I I I would love the answer to this. It's a continuum. We need to figure out where that is, and I wouldn't do it the day of the big presentation. Find out beforehand. A lot of my clients are like, I'm gonna take a pill, I forget what it's called, clunk a dime or clon the clon. Anyway, I'm like, well, don't do it for the first time before going on this practice with whatever method you're gonna choose. Yes, exercise can be stimulating and exercise can help dissipate. So find that balance for me. It's coffee. I will drink nine or ten cups if if I don't have somebody monitoring me. And so I have to learn like what how much coffee is enough that's gonna keep me alert and focused, but not turn me into uh a sputtering idiot because I've just got too much energy going on. So find find what works for you in that range and dissipate the energy, but don't exacerbate it.

Maxim 45:38

So conversation. No, no, this is fabulous. What what is your like what's your favorite coffee? And ladies, like espresso ristretto, corretto, like kind of like what uh for me it's a light roast, okay, espresso.

Salvatore Manzi 45:54

Okay. Usually I prefer a double shot. A light roast, espresso. I prefer Colombian beans, although there's some others that I like as well. Sumatra is not bad. Uh, but a light roast is I feel like people that like dark roast are just losing, they're just basically eating like the the crust from a toast. Like, no, let's give the flavors of the coffee in there. Okay, you want to talk about coffee? We're gonna spend the rest of this hour talking about coffee. What about you? Do you drink coffee?

Maxim 46:24

I do, I do. Um primarily just espresso. I'm I'm similar with you uh in terms of looking for for me, it's it's less so well, it's kind of tied to the rose factor, but for me it's tied to I want to find a coffee that has harmony and balance. Not what are we talking about harmony and balance between acidity and alkalinity? Like when I go into like famous gourmet uh coffee shops, I actually don't like their coffee because I find the rose to be too dark and I find the acidity to be too high. So one of the businesses the only is the wine business, and so it is the same way. I I I look at this and like I'm looking for a balance, I won't look for complexity. I don't want to just be punched in the head with the acidity, like it's just not fun. Like, I don't I don't want to feel like I'm getting a hardburn after drinking an espresso.

Salvatore Manzi 47:23

Yeah, I agree. I know, and for me, honestly, I don't know why. I mean, because I'm such a geek, but I love the science behind it. Like, I love getting my grinder just between that two and two point two five to get that perfect grind, depending on beam, which changes and changes over the we can, but the humidity of the space changes how the grind. So all of that science behind it, and I don't know. For me, that is my meditation is making my cup of coffee in the morning and and doing doing it with passion and intention, yeah, and getting that perfect espresso. We need to go out for coffee, my friend.

Maxim 47:59

Absolutely. Where in California are you right now?

Salvatore Manzi 48:03

Currently north of Sacramento in a town called Nevada City.

unknown 48:07

Okay.

Salvatore Manzi 48:07

I'm a full-time digital nomad, so I'm in a different place every couple of weeks, typically West Coast, but oftentimes all over the world.

Maxim 48:16

What's the hardest and the best thing about being a digital nomad?

Salvatore Manzi 48:23

I'll start with the best. I have friends all over the world, and I get to go visit and be a part of their lives for days, not just a quick dinner here or there. And that that and experiencing the cultures from different parts of the world just fills my bucket. There are some real challenges. Like we, this is a voting year in America, so I have to make my way to where my mail is going to get my my ballot and fill that out in a certain time. And the second is the medical, right? I am fortunate that I don't need a lot of medical uh needs right now, but setting up regular doctor doctor appointments is sort of a joke. I'm like, okay, where am I? And um, but other than that, I I highly recommend the life of a nomad to anybody that's willing to sell everything you own and just go out there and enjoy life.

Maxim 49:17

Have you ever been an expat?

Salvatore Manzi 49:20

I have. I've lived in uh New Zealand, Mexico, the Virgin Islands, Italy, um, among some other places.

unknown 49:27

Yeah.

Maxim 49:28

Where's where's the family from in Italy?

Salvatore Manzi 49:30

They're from their split, Naples and uh north, somewhere in Rome, possibly.

Maxim 49:35

Okay, so a bit of the Amalfi cost and uh okay, okay, okay. My grandma's from Naples, yeah. Okay, so Napoli. So do you have a preference for south versus north?

Salvatore Manzi 49:46

Uh, you wanted to start a war? Are you would each what do you think I'm gonna do? I'm not gonna answer that question. There are benefits to both of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very nice. The good thing is the food is amazing no matter where you go, north or south. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maxim 50:03

No, I I completely agree. Uh, a friend of mine from Salerno, just outside of uh Napoli.

Salvatore Manzi 50:08

Oh, it's so beautiful there. I love Salerno. I did spend some time in that area, and yeah, well, I won't go into the whole story, but I the best pizza I ever had was in Salerno.

Maxim 50:20

So agreed, agreed. I may become unpopular here, but I do prefer the north over the south. We've traveled extensively throughout Italy.

Salvatore Manzi 50:29

Uh what is it about the north? What is what is the um the fashion?

Maxim 50:35

Not not not so much. Um it's a little I I don't know if if if this is the right word, but it it's a little more closer to what I'm used to. And so the comfort level is higher. Like, for example, we a couple of years ago we spent two weeks in Sicily. Love Sicily, but Sicily can be very chaotic. And so if if you ask me to pick between um like the west coast of Sicily with Palermo versus um going to uh Ragusta or Notto or Syracuse or Tigia, like I prefer that part. It was a lot a lot more to what I'm used to. So from a comfort level, I felt more at home. I've obviously like Italian people, I mean, this is what they're known for, hospitality, right? Like they're some of the friendliest nation. Um, it just for me, just the comfort level that it seems like, and and it comes also to experience. Like um, some of the best time that they've had was uh in uh Lago di Garta. Uh we stayed there with my wife on one of our business trips, and so really, really enjoyed. I mean, Lago di Com is obviously beautiful, but I just it comes down to memory, like like in your brain, you associate the experiences, and that's kind of like the nostalgia, the the the mnemonics is kind of what feeds uh your impression of a place.

Salvatore Manzi 51:59

Absolutely, and Luca. Have you been to Luca?

unknown 52:02

No.

Salvatore Manzi 52:03

Oh, see, that's the jewel, in my opinion. Luca creates it's not quite in the middle, but it does create that balance between the north and the south, that sort of southern, more casual, relaxed, let's take a longer siesta. No, let's not go back to work, let's just eat kind of attitude with that northern like drive and passion and clarity, and wow, this poissant is the best one I ever had, kind of thing, you know.

Maxim 52:29

Yeah, Luca's amazing. Fantastic. Somewhere to go. Yeah. Sorry. Um, I'd like to close my interviews with uh with a choice of of a question. One what's the best advice you have ever received? And or what's the kindest thing that anyone has ever done for you?

Salvatore Manzi 52:59

I feel like people have been so kind to me my whole life, it'd be hard to pick one of those. So I don't I'm gonna go to the first one. Sure. The first one was again the best advice. The best advice I ever received was to study what everybody else is doing and then do your own thing. Look at what all the other coaches, mentors, leaders are doing, and then chart your own path. And it has basically been a guiding force in my life.

Maxim 53:34

On that note, I really enjoy the conversation, Salvatoree. Uh, be your authentic self, but use other people as uh as a proxy in terms of finding out what works. Um, as the saying goes, history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. So if you look at what other people have done in the past, what they're doing, you can find what works and what doesn't work and then make it your own. So great advice. Really enjoyed the time. Um appreciate it. It was a pleasure talking to you.

Salvatore Manzi 54:06

It's a pleasure talking with you too. And again, congratulations on your anniversary.

Maxim 54:11

Thank you.